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Information about Dog and Cat pet?

Hi everybody its dr. Mary Gardner and  with good friend and veterinary oncologist sue Ettinger waiting in the wings and Sue, This article for a number of reasons because I know that a lot of families when they hear the word cancer they get all freaked out and scared when they hear them the word oncologists it even scares them more and so I just wanted to invite my good friend on oh she just popped off and I know she’ll pop pop pop back on again my good friend Sue who’s a veterinary oncologist who kind of helped us dismiss some of these myths that might be out there so I wanted to just start off also to tell you my everybody some of my experiences so I’ve had three dogs with cancer my first dog was about ten years ago,

it was a Doberman named neo and he had an adrenal tumor which I had it removed and then, unfortunately, it had spread to his lair so we’ve decided to do chemo with him now the oncologists at that time she said without chemo you have seven weeks and with chemo, you have seven months and I thought you know what Mia was doing so well that I want to give him seven months and we had seven really good months with neo my second eye was my other Doberman with melanoma in his mouth we had that removed and some vaccines and with him, the first person I called was my friend dr. sue who’s waiting in the waist and so he did really well with that treatment and now I currently have another dog her name is Sam she’s a 14-year-old Anatolian Shepherd so this is a big breed dog and she has lymphoma so what happened was a few months ago she also has Cushing’s which is an internal medicine disease so so a few months ago though I noticed her in her feet and having a little bit of weakness in her hind end I knew she had great hips her spine looked great on an x-ray so I was wondering what the heck could this be could it be degenerate myelopathy spine and so it also happens to be in her spleen and liver and so the first person I called again was dr. sue just to kind of understand what are my options and this is a 14-year-old dog like that’s very old to some people especially with the larger breed and what was the life expectancy that I could expect from Sam and with this disease and what were my options so I called sue and got a and got a consultation and now have since gone to the oncologist and today Sam just received her fourth chemo treatment and she is doing great even her mobility has improved in so shirt’s she’s doing really well and I asked you to come on to answer some of your guy’s questions and also as I said hopefully dismay some of the myths out there about oncologist now I know a lot of you are like I didn’t even know there was such thing as a specialist in veterinary medicine well there are a lot of specialists,

I am just a wee general practitioner but if I wanted to go on for three or four five more years to do a special specialty there’s cardiology you I think I’m on but there you are frozen on my end so I can wait are we having storms in Florida I cannot hear Mary hey guys I’m so happy to be on but I’m hoping that you guys can hear me better than I can hear Mary there we go are you having storms are you having storms in Florida you know we always have storms but not today this is just because the article gods want to just stop us but we will not be stopped and I am well my boys have strict rules they are not allowed to be on Netflix or fortnight right now exactly so I know I am hardwired and I want this mess and any time I freeze I will certainly refresh and okay luckily all of the people who follow us or awesome and are usually patient so so thank you for coming on soon you you know I love being with you I know I know we get to travel so much and speak around the world and we are grounded so what better way than just to connect via article and so dr. sue was the one who I call it whenever I find a lump a bump a spot or basically anything that scares me with the big CEO or with cancer so thanks for being there for everybody and like I said Sam did great on her chemo number for today and again Christine.

she had been Christine, yeah, and then she’ll eat some chips too and maybe one for me, so I know the biggest question people ask is, what about all the side effects and in humans, do we have all these effects negative secondary? it’s the same for pets in general, yes, I mean most of us unfortunately have some experience, be it a family member or friend with cancer, or you know we know someone you know who has passed away cancer and then often we don’t even know what kind of cancer it was, so there are so many different diseases and you know that in people with cancer, when they get chemotherapy, there are a lot of side effects and I always tell customers that chemotherapy and people is not chemotherapy and pets and that’s a good thing so 80% of dogs and cats have no side effects so their quality of life with chemotherapy is often as good as their quality of life without chemotherapy are really good most days, it means not that they have no side effect and no effect but they are usually mild and what we say is self limited so they will overcome it on their own just in a few days but what I like about the current drug and is that we have very good knowledge of medications so you know i told you and luckily your oncologist is really like me make sure Sam to take home an ax and vomit medications and we are very proactive,

go home on diarrhea medicine because you know Wendy likes Murphy’s law when there is vomiting at 9 am. look at a proper weekend at night so you want them close at hand, if they happen you can hop on the very early so your dog starts, I say no because if their own pets have what we are veterinarian but if our own pets have cancer or are sick with a certain disease so insane as any other pet owner is when unsure about chemo to give or give a few doses and see how well they do and most people come back saying it’s not as bad as I thought it, yes, and I think that’s what we see in human medicine scares us so and frankly of my first dog to undergo neo chemotherapy, I thought you knew, I know cancer eventually got him will kill, no chemotherapy and I hate to be so blunt about it. ,

but I thought this is how he was going to die not from his chemo and what we could do was slow him down and I mean seven months I’m so grateful i did that now i know the big mac i really want to add something to that, Mary, because that’s a good point, a lot of people say I don’t want my pet to undergo chemotherapy and what you especially know for a cancerous lymphoma, because it’s a very fast-progressing cancer that will cause symptoms Pets to get sick with that cancer and I say I understand but you know a little less than half of those pets have some symptoms and most of the time it’s like they are tired not eating well maybe they vomit or have diarrhea and I say I understand You don’t want your pet to have any symptoms from the treatment, but he has cancer, so he is common and I hate the word suffering and I know you do too. but they feel bad about cancer and the lymphoma is 80 to 90 percent PL. We go into remission with the chop chemotherapy protocol as if Sam were getting a remission mark, but to put the nine-meter perspective, every cancer is different so if your pet has different cancer, be it a dog or a cat it is great to see a vet, ideally have a cancer specialist or your vet see a cancer specialist as every cancer is different and the other thing I only want to say to cat owners is that they know that if I’m on the remote control, you already know cat owners, I upload cats and dogs and people you think will tolerate the plan better, they are cats But who would think these vulnerable little creatures have the least side effects of all of us? It’s incredible so and I’ve seen it very well, very well, especially with lymphoma in cats, because they are doing really well, they respond better, if their percentage is better, the hard part in cats is gastrointestinal lymphoma,

the most common form which is only five to seven percent of the lymphomas that we see in dogs so cats that present with lymphoma they’re sick they you know they you know I told you the more than half the dogs that come in with a lymphoma they’re feeling great like you know they’re still eating they just have these big lymph nodes usually Sam’s unusual because his is it her it’s in her spinal cord but most dogs feel really happy that they’re usually asymptomatic eight you know they don’t have any symptoms when they’re coming in cats usually have it in their gastrointestinal tract so they’re vomiting diarrhea and or losing weight so they’re usually sick from their lymphoma so they need their treatment to start feeling better so going back to the owner says oh I don’t want them to feel unwell you know like they’re already not feeling well from their cancer,

so it’s a little bit different so they need that chemo to start stop vomiting stop the diarrhea and start gaining weight and eating which is interesting right you’re gonna give them chemo to treat their cancer to make them start eating again right right and now um soon there are injectable chemo therapies or like what’s the difference right and you don’t get to pick right you don’t go in and say I’d like the oral chemo please it there like some drugs come in oral like it would be great ideally if we could give every chemo oral but it has to get survive the stomach in the stomach’s a very acidic place so most chemo drugs in general are injectable and so but a few do come in the oral form so you can’t go in and say hey can I just get the oral so we it’s based on what drug works best for each individual cancer but there are some that are oral and some that are injectable the other thing is a lot of people like there’s so much like mystery like how does my cat get pet cat chemo so you know that was sort of like a lot of the reasons that I made those websitearticles and so you can go to my Websitechannel just to see like what it’s like because you know most of us envision people in a chair right plugged up to an IV so if you go to my articles you can see that you know big dogs we do on the floor because they’re happier on the floor it’s more fear free so we do with them on a blanket and you know small dogs and cats we usually will do up on a treatment table and there he’ll during their treatment by an assistant and then the chemotherapy nurse will administer their treatment they’re awake,

they get some blood work they get their treatment they get treats through out the door so you know Sam’s usually what an hour to an hour and a half Oh max it’s so easy and now to be honest with curbside you know I just go get a french fries come back and and and it’s it’s not it’s not that bad and and they do check bloodwork every time for her so is that something that is normal that you guys do also yeah so from we have to check their white blood cell count to make sure that they have enough white blood cells the neutrophil is to give their chemo and then different drugs we may have to check some other values like kidney values or platelets and things like that so you know we’re always monitoring and again for each case we’ll go over the specifics some drugs you know we have to check liver values and things like that so there are certain things that we’ll be checking for you and again certain drugs that we may not be able to give to a pet because they have pre-existing conditions so again that’s why you know it’s hard to always give general recommendations you know and that’s why we can do these general things but then if your pet has cancer,

It is very important that you see a specialist or that your vet goes back to a specialist. Now there was something really important that you told me about Sam so she got diagnosed and Sam is kind of a unique situation with her being in her spine which is not normal I just didn’t see her walk well and I turned me around crazy and by the way she has been walking like I said much better now so I will do another MRI and about six weeks to see if it shrinks a bit but some vets say maybe ok let’s start on steroids with pred and if they do better than then, I might go to the oncologist to see if they like it. if there is anything for you to know where i’m trying to go like we should be testing what steroids are and why we should see an oncologist first then lymphoma you know steroids are used for many things in veterinary medicine they are anti-inflammatory and they are good too but for lymphoma and this is like one of the things that is very important to know and often people find out too late and get frustrated so steroid lymphoma for lymphoma is once part of the treatment if you start chemotherapy but if you start steroids before chemotherapy, the chemotherapy is less effective and that was a very important reason why he didn’t want Sam to start on steroids, which are often used for neurological conditions, but if we take and then you have a positive answer such as oh what is treating your lymphoma and then you started chemotherapy can reduce the effectiveness of chemotherapy so less you see h On those who had large lymph nodes and then unfortunately they started on steroids and then they came to visit me and you know that starting chemotherapy with that said is no guarantee that chemotherapy will be less effective.

I’ve had dogs on steroids. We’ve done chemotherapy and they’ve beaten the statistics and then I’ve had dogs on steroids. I haven’t used steroids and it doesn’t do that well so that doesn’t mean chemotherapy isn’t worth a try, but if you’re battling cancer you have to put everything you know in your favor, what you can and cannot do. I don’t knowingly want to do anything that could harm a pet. Yes, what kind of staging is that? I know there are so many that I shouldn’t say stupid, but there are so many doctor words. I mean that can be unpleasant when you have a pet because it’s like learning a whole new language and you know my dogs have a lot of problems with internal medicine and when my husband is an internist and sometimes talks to me like he doesn’t know what are you saying please talk to me in simple terms so aging is a nice word from a doctor to run tests to find out how far along the cancer is or how far away,

it has become so widespread for many cancers and let’s talk about another cancer you know just so you know so we’re not just talking about lymphoma but let’s say a dog has breast cancer breast cancer we would do staging studies like chest X-rays and / or ultrasound to see if it is metastasizing or spreading internally, we could aspirate a lymph node to see if it has spread to a lymph node, so staging exams are again the diagnoses your vet will make or the specialist is going to do to see if the cancer has spread beyond the primary location and therefore for any cancer that has the potential to spread, I say there are two battle fronts, there is a battle front where the cancer grows, such as breast tissue or bone growth , cancer, osteosarcoma in the bone and then the second battle front is whether the cancer has spread and then, if it hasn’t spread, if it has a high chance of spreading we are going to do chemotherapy to keep it from spreading and i think with my neo right so i removed it d and we had a good chance it was benign but not then did we just do the chemotherapy to help with the spread, now we have to point out that not all cancers are like there are low grade mass cell tumors that are surgically removed because we find nodules and bumps early, you know, do your Monthly bump and bump check, so yesterday was the first of the month. I recommend that everyone examine your dog’s nose and that of your cats. The queue for those lumps and bumps because there are so many skin tumors and other tumors that, if you find them early, have little chance of spreading and don’t need chemotherapy,

I don’t want people to think every cancer needs chemo even some malignant ones you could you know low-grade soft tissue sarcomas you do a nice big surgery because we find them early they don’t necessarily need chemo they just need staging tests and monitoring so not everybody needs chemo I love to see cases and say hey we’re just gonna monitor and you know not everybody gets chemo seeing an oncologist doesn’t mean you quemo it doesn’t mean you’re gonna get an overview of your pet’s cancer no that’s really so so with me and that’s why I called you I was like oh what’s my statistics what you know what are my options and so now sue I know that you’ve got and I’ve got your Facebook and Instagram up here dr. sue cancer vet now um do you do consult to pet owners or to special or to general practitioners like me so that’s a great question because my email box of money I get a lot of requests and it’s really really hard so you know especially because I do a lot of articles and things like that I don’t give advice to specific pet owners on their pets because I can’t do a good job because I haven’t one examine the pet and reviewed the medical records but I do consult tell a consulting virtual consulting through Phi to vet which we’re putting that up which is for me to do consults to practitioners where I get to upload the medical records and then I could make advice to the general practitioner in some cases I may recommend that they go see an oncologist you know but in some parts of the country it maybe six hours you know eight hours but I do a consultation so for pet owners that may be reading this and say I would love to have a consultation with dr. su or another oncologist you can ask your veterinarian to do the consultation through fight you if I do that not yet then and if and if it’s a treatment that they could do themselves then you can help guide them to do it and probably just provide a lot of good information I mean the problem with on I mean is that there’s 450 oncologist in the entire United States and Canada that’s it in Canada yeah that includes Canada,

You know the New York area where I am and probably 25 and you know the LA you know Orange counties you know San Diego area so there are parts of the country that I call the desert were armed people for hours and so you know I really love to help people but what I think is really important is that because like is to make really as I was saying I want to be able to make those specific recommendations and I think that means you know looking through the medical records and I love helping veterinarians so that’s why I helped co-found if I do that yeah that’s awesome now I know I think somebody traveled six hours to see you yesterday with the maths allergy I’m on a different Facebook group and she’s like I’m going to see dr. sue I mean what I love about this it is this woman was wonderful so I haven’t posted the picture yet but she said I could I got a media release Oh Otis beautiful yellow Labrador like eighty-five pound Labrador and you know I love a good Labrador you know I’d love to take a selfie with a good lab and he was doing beautiful but she this was a great she has an oncologist in Maine she wanted a second opinion and she drove down she just wanted me to go meet her dog see the tumor see her dog go through the medical records make recommendations she had seen my articles on mast cell tumor she’s already watched everything but you know,

it was just perfect like and we wrote everything up she’s gonna I know her on colleges we actually did our residency at the same place and agree is great you know it just lets her know that you know they are on the right track and and things like that it was a recurrent mast cell tumor that came back sooner than it should have but you know tumors mast cell tumors are a tricky tumor yeah I remember those in general practice they can they can definitely be tricky and what’s nice is you know it is getting different options and and you know we all we all cook a little differently we all treat a little differently and not that when one weighs is wrong and and what’s nice is if ODIs may you know have some you know some reason why there’s a change to be made and then they could you know maybe use a different a different protocol or a different approach and but for six hours I mean I would drive six hours to see you sue but I’m always honored when people make the trek to see me I always hope it’s a lot of pressure I just like I hope I was worth the journey but you know if you ever it really really is oh you are definitely you are definitely worth the journey for sure and what’s really nice is that there are it could because 450 in the United States it’s not it’s that’s not enough and and so to be able to offer that through phyto if I do with find it was really great that people can just at least get that get the knowledge so maybe if six hours was her closest oncologist just to get information before she even decided to do that might be really good so so that’s so that’s awesome now sue have you I was thinking about this before I forgot to ask have you ever had a patient where there’s cancer in the lungs and you’ve done chemo and they’ve stuck because everybody worries like once patient ,

well yes oh my god yes I just know and I shouldn’t respond that way but yes and I think it is such an important question that you ask because when when I was trained you know when I did my residency we’ve put up those x-rays and I’m old so I’m talking about hanging up x-rays not the digital I’m done putting them up on the x-ray viewer you know and a dog had you know really bad x-rays and so I have a series of articles where I show some of these and it looks like there’s snowballs you know throughout the lungs you know we would tell an owner one to two months you know and there was we know traditional injectable chemo that like we that were giving Sam or that we would give a dog with osteosarcoma before the cancer has spread to the lungs typically doesn’t work now there are some oral chemotherapy protocols some metronomic protocols that have been successful and I have had some dogs live six months to one year to two and three years and one dog live four plus years with static thyroid cancer in that article I show Oprah who had lung we think it was metastatic mammary cancer and she lived almost three years on these protocols I just did an IG TV article about Joey this beautiful Maine Coon Kitty that has metastatic pancreatic adenocarcinoma super rare he’s on this Palladia protocol and his tumors have shrunk 50% after being on this protocol for seven months and he I’m also treating him for IBD so the point is there are definitely options for dogs owners that are willing to give pills to their dogs every day you know but I’m I’m continuously and many coners are but you have to be able you know if you can’t pill your dog or cat I couldn’t no leader you know it was not you know when he had IBD like Bellingham was was complicated but you know many owners they got this like you know they really do it and it can work and I I think it’s a really important question and you know to be honest Mary that’s why I do these articles is,

there are options for dogs with metastatic cancer and to me like I almost got it emotional about it because to know that there are dogs that are still alive after that compared to what I was taught and it’s not that what I was taught wrong in my residency is these options didn’t really exist Oprah’s mom contacted me it’s just I laugh because it’s Oprah’s mom but it over is this big Dobby and and her know you know I treated her probably five seven years ago another one of her dogs just had a lung mass removed at a different Hospital up in the upstate New York area and she’s like do you remember me I’m like do I remember you you know like upwards of my lectures you know so I think it’s a really important like you know lesson for us to remember that there are options for my pet and that’s heartbreaking yes yes and I find that also with with doing end-of-life care with lack of love is that is that it’s it’s not it’s not heartbreaking helping famine it’s sad helping families you know say goodbye,

it’s sad because they’re losing a loved one right but what’s heartbreaking is like oh my gosh if they had only known if they had only known if they had seen and not even if a year before that they went and saw something that we could have gotten more time but we might have gotten better time right and you know and better quality of life and and and so that that would best what makes me sad too so that’s why it’s better to see get here get your information sooner so that that you can make your options better to what’s best for your family right versus if you like I’d hate to be you to be like well yeah if he saw me three three months ago I could have done more like and I mean I I get articles from clients and you may not be able to send me I mean Sam was never a dog who was running on the beach because you told me she was always kind of slow right but I get articles from clients that are like their dogs are running on the beach in the middle of chemotherapy and their dogs are doing agility in the middle of chemotherapy like their quality of life and then there are dogs like their quality of life is sitting on the couch with you because that is what they do but you know where they go in there one while walks I have this one dog that I’m treating right now that was copper he has two chemo treatments left in his chopped chemotherapy he goes on five and a half mile walks every day every day not five six five and a half you know but like that is his quality of life like you know for going on his walks and so and he gets to do that way he’s on chemo some days he’s a little tired but most days he gets to do what he wants to do and that’s it’s awesome you love it I love it so now sue if you weren’t a cancer vet what would you and you and you can’t even pick a back you can’t say that you’d be another what would you like to be this is the little doctor sue you don’t work me about this I know I’m going through everybody’s like things that you know being a vet is awesome but something different he couldn’t be a veterinary oncologist well back in undergrad I was i loved art history i like no but you know,

i thought i would major in that but i don’t know how you make a living doing that right no i always thought you know when when when vet school whoa an anon pet when vet days are bad the surgeon and i and our other practice we always talked about maybe owning a florist shop because we would get to surround ourselves with flowers and most of the time except for funerals when you’re delivering flowers it’s usually like happy moments right you’re celebrating anniversaries and birthdays I love following you on your on your Instagram and Facebook but what’s great is when you have graduation certificates for those that have made it through chemo I love that it’s so much fun and I think it’s nice for owners to have that you know that badge of success if you will so practice the practice of that I’m at now so my one of my oncology technicians also happens to be the hospital manager and he like is really into this so he actually like buys like a basket or a little soft crate and he put stuffed animals into it and like you know but like um like little to toys and like sometimes you know hats from the hospital and stuff like that but he goes all in for this and stuff like that and I do think it’s a really important celebration the interesting part Mary and you’ll have to you’ll have to check back in with us and let us know is a lot of owners what I find is they get really nervous on that day because you have like the reassurance that you’re coming in and you’re seeing me weekly expect or every other week or every third week depending on the protocol and then all of a sudden you’re graduating and I’m like okay come back in a month and you’re like well you know I’m that like doing my dance and my graduation really can I come back next week like no no so but it is still really a great day and they’re all so happy not to come back next week and pay a bill so yes that is true now I just see one person here is Shelly my 13 year old dog was given three three to nine months to live in April last year she still has him thankfully he has an inoperable tumor on the sheath of an herb in the brainstem and its resting on his brainstem,

they said chemo wouldn’t help much it could be an option I wish I had seen this sooner his legs are failing I mean his head is sunken in but he’s still so happy well that’s because also he’s oh you didn’t say a breed I was gonna say a lab because I was thinking about labs they’re always happy but maybe options would give him so she wishes she saw this sooner but listen Shelly you know you’re taking such good care of him for over a year and that’s what you know these statistics are just that they’re they’re just the average and and sometimes we have less and sometimes we’re blessed with more I was given for Sam about a year so let’s you know and she’s 14 just the other thing is a lot of people say like oh it’s it’s 14 year old like why do you that I’m such an old dog and that you know is my is one of my soapboxes other than this she was fine like and Mary I want to point out because we have you the quality of life scales and I want to point out because and the most recent comment from Jennifer talks about how helpful those quality of life scales are I think they are super important because I struggled with Jeter my kitty with IBD that became lymphoma with quality of life and how hard it is you know like and I think quality of life is this term that we often throw around in veterinary medicine as veterinarians and then we we talked to it with pet owners and I do think it is really hard to figure out what I’m getting emotional because I’m talking about Jeter but what quality of life is and the quality of life scales that you guys have are amazing,

it’s hard to tell I mean I’m married to a vet and we still struggled you know with with it’s super hard and I think even doing the scales now before it gets I don’t say bad because then you then you can kind of grade what they are now take pictures now because the Shelly said you know that the head sinks in you might see some changes of what the normal was and and Shelly’s this is a large large breed mixed dog I’m gonna tell you the best thing ever with behind and weaknesses might help him up harness which I could like can’t say enough about that harness and and that’s really helpful for my girl Sam and just to pop her into the into the car is so much better so Shelly just definitely try try getting some some help if you need it now so you know I could talk to you all day and I miss you terribly being on the road and I want every I’m gonna put up your little doodad here to make sure people know how to follow you because you are awesome wear a smile and you know sue I’d love to say that you have the best clients but we have so in family have the best families that just love their pets unconditionally as much as their pets love them and I appreciate your time and thank you everybody for dealing with a little bit of techo problems in the beginning this was my first shared screen so oh my goodness I sees Janet has a good question is it true last question is it true that cats mask their symptoms when they have cancer for yearly well visit should you’ll do an ultrasound and blood I really think for dogs and cats when they get to middle age they should have blood work with urine because you want that urine to help evaluate the kidneys and an ultrasound I’ll say chest x-rays as well but the reason,

I say twice a years is just think about how pets age and that you know we say that 5 to 7 years for every year you know so really twice a year and also make sure you’re tracking their weight because weight loss is so hard to tell and our fluffy pets and weight loss can be assigned of disease not just cancer but GI disease and other disease things like that so yeah definitely get them weighed have you know your vets exam is gonna be so important as well blood and urine ultrasound and chest x-rays and that’s not just going to pick up cancer but other diseases as well an early prevention and detection is going to be so important not just for cancer but other diseases as well so true awesome well like I said I could talk to you forever and maybe we’ll steal you again one day in the future yes they can find you a doctor sue cancer that as I see there and then again you do consultations to veterinarians through five Yvette comm so if a pet parent has wants to get some information from you or for you to look at their kit has to go through their dog yeah and literally a ton of advice or not a ton of advice but a ton of information on all the major cancers and dogs and cats on my You Tube channel and the monthly lump and check article number 73 on Websiteand guys first of the month to your lump and lump and bump check open anything and see something do something why wait ask for a go to the vet, thank you guys bye,

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